Does Using Public Transit Really Make Financial Sense?

"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
08/29/2018 at 13:24 • Filed to: None

*Video for placeholder because I can’t upload pics anymore*

Common knowledge seems to be that if you need to save money, you should, if available, take public transit as opposed to owning a vehicle. But is that really the case?

*Note—this isn’t going to be correct for everyone. That’s not the point of this. Nor is it advice, or an attempt to justify myself. Rather it’s a question I’m interested to see the results of in different areas. Also anyone who tells you there is a definitive answer either hasn’t done the math or is a flat-out liar :)*

I’m going to use myself as the example here. So lets get some details for a start:

- Single time fares are obviously useless, they will be ignored.

- I live in suburban Toronto, so the TTC would be the transit system I would start on.

- I work in Mississauga, so at some point I’d have to transfer to MiWay.

- I will be assuming a 5-day week, 50-week year.

- Relevant TTC fare options are a $43.75 weekly pass or a $146.25 monthly pass.

- Relevant MiWay fares are limited to the $130 monthly pass.

- Rather than pay twice, there is an inter-system GTA weekly pass for $63.

- I’m going to stretch this over 4 years, as that’s about how long I’ve had my truck. So a little more long term analysis.

- Since I obviously can’t remember every fill up I every made, I’m going to concentrate on commutes only since I have a pretty good idea of how far I can go if I’m only driving to work.

- This is based on someone not having a car rather than someone who has a car already. At least for the initial argument.

So, my options are (a) $3747.50/yr for TO weekly/MI monthly, (b) $3315/yr for two monthly passes and (c) $3150/yr for the inter-system weekly, making it the cheapest by $165/yr. All told that comes to $12,600 for four years.

Now for the truck. I know that doing nothing but commute, I can get 2 weeks (10 days) out of a tank. Lets say 8 days for margin. Over 4 years, that’s 125 fillups. Let’s assume 65L a shot at 1.50/L (in reality, on average, both numbers have been significantly lower than this) so $12,187.50 would be my total fuel used for 4 years. And all told I’ve paid $17,700 in insurance, because I happen to be under 25, male and living in Toronto.

That brings the totals to $12,600 for transit, $29887.50 for a personal vehicle. Seems pretty decisive, right? I mean, over 4 years that’s a $17, 287.50 advantage for transit. Well... not so fast.

In my case, it takes me 15 minutes to drive to work, about 20 to get home. Transit takes a little over an hour (ideally) to get me both in and out again. And if there’s bad traffic, I can dodge it—a bus can’t. But we’ll ignore that for the purposes of this. Upshot is, at 2h5m round trip it’s exactly 1.5 hours longer to take transit.

At first glance, that’s not a big deal. Just get up earlier, get home later. Right? Well, Kinda. If you have set hours, you’re pretty much screwed. If your sleep and end of day free time aren’t worth $4200 a year to you—and they’re probably not—then obviously transit makes more sense. However, I don’t have fixed hours. I can come in earlier if I want to or have to, and can leave later as well. As such, that extra 1.5h has real value. And by spending it on the bus, I’m essentially throwing money out the window. How much? Assuming $14/h (Ontario minimum, significantly less than what I’d be making) and not accounting for overtime, that’s $5250/yr in potential earnings, or $21,000 over our 4 year window. So now, our running total is at $3712.50 in favour of owning a vehicle. On top of that, the weekly passes are only sold in select locations. The most convenient one puts me at least 15 minutes out of my way... not much, but good for $175/yr worth—bringing the 4 year total to $4412.50 in the green.

Of course, then there’s the vehicle to consider. In my case, I spent 24k because I’m a chump. I could have driven off for 21k, but like an idiot I bought the warranty. For this case I’m going to use the 21k number. Take away that from the $4400, I’m back $16,600 in the hole. However.

- You don’t need to spend that much. the $4400 could probably net you something serviceable. Not to mention that you’d probably be able to snag something with better gas mileage, meaning that $4400 grows even more. And remember, that $4400 was calculated from minimum wage.

- The vehicle, if it needs to be, is a saleable asset. Right now, trucks like mine, same year, same mileage, are still out there for around $16,500. That takes me right back to breakeven—or where breakeven would have been if I hadn’t made the warranty mistake. I assume are smarter than me in that regard, so I’m not including it.

Admittedly, there are things like service/tires/etc... to which I say my ACTUAL surplus before vehicle purchase is nearer to $12k. That more than covers anything I’ve put into this thing, many times over. And if you ARE earning minimum wage you’re not paying 21k anyways.

Worst case scenario, around here, you break even and have a convenience to show for it. Best case, if you already have a vehicle available (and many do) taking transit becomes equivalent to literally burning money.

For those of you that made it this far, congratulations. Have some old Top Gear as a treat. Because hockey’s almost back:

TL;DR do the math ymmv

Also interested to see someone poke holes in my argument. I’ve gone through this a bunch but I wouldn’t be shocked if I forgot something.

DISCUSSION (49)

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 13:25

Post sparked by this

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/1828494899

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 13:30

It comes down to where you live and the system you have to deal with. In Po rtland OR, the public transit is terrific and cheap, $5/day for an anything pass and it gets you very close to your destinations.

CalzoneGolem > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 13:31

I live in the woods so I can’t participate in this thought experiment.

djmt1 > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 13:34

Urgh, I dread the day I need to use public transport on a regular basis. Not that I have a problem mingling with the great unwashed (I am one) or are in any way lacking public transport (I live in London (The original one)) but bugger me its so bloody expensive in this city. Back when I was in Uni I had a simple choice. Ł400 every year in bus fares or a 3 mile walk. All I can say is that I have some banging calves and a banging gaming PC. Still no banging car though, UK’s ridiculous insurance premiums are preventing that.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 13:36

even if public transport was free and always ran on time.. it has one glaring flaw i will pay to avoid at pretty much any cost

other people.

PartyPooper2012 > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 13:36

Say you are taking the public transportation to and from work. You may be saving money in the short term, but losing money in the long term.

Assuming you work at your place for 4 years, surely, you will have made some sort of contact with coworkers. Maybe you get closer than just saying hi. Maybe they invite you to a birthday party for their kid or they are moving to a new place and need a hand moving.

Without a vehicle, you are that weirdo whom no one will ask for help and probably wont invite to a birthday party. This means you will possibly be passed up for promotion for assuming you are a weirdo. No promotion and no raise means you are losing money.

Of course things are different if you live in a big city like NYC for instance. All areas of the city are accessible via public transportation. There are taxis, ubers, lyfts etc. So perhaps what I said above won’ t affect you in same way it may affect you if you lived in the sticks.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
08/29/2018 at 13:38

Exactly. My point is, people tend (at least in my experience) to assume transit will be cheaper and that’s not necessarily true.

It also depends what vehicle you get.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > CalzoneGolem
08/29/2018 at 13:38

I’ll put you down as an automatic win for the car.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > djmt1
08/29/2018 at 13:39

FWIW, I never did this math when I bought my truck. I just didn’t want to to use transit, wanted a vehicle anyways, and this was all a pl easant surprise.

nermal > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 13:40

Depends on location. Work in New York City but live outside? Absolutely take the train or whatever in. The net costs and also time will be significantly lower.

Anywhere else? Drive. Especially if there’s a sizable time savings as you noted.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > farscythe - makin da cawfee!
08/29/2018 at 13:40

Good point. That’s worth a good $4k/yr right? ;)

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 13:41

We have an amazing bus system here. I can buy an annual bus pass for $1 50 and go pretty much anywhere on this island. Can you own and o perate a car for $150/yr?

Kinja'd!!!

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > PartyPooper2012
08/29/2018 at 13:43

Right. It’s all a matter of circumstance.

Besides all that, with a vehicle I can go pretty much where I want when I want. Whether that be road trip, beach, etc i f you put a price on a personal life it’s hard to say it’s a bad thing. Beside you’re going to do that sometimes anyway and will probably have to rent something. At $1 00+ a pop.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > nermal
08/29/2018 at 13:45

Exactly. I’ve got two points here behind this post :

- The common conception could well be incorrect for you

- Who here’s done the math and what was the result

CalzoneGolem > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 13:45

It would cost m e m illions of dollars to first develop a public transport system to span through the woods to the slightly less wooded area where I work in an office.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
08/29/2018 at 13:49

...

No, but if I lived there I most likely wouldn’t buy a car if I didn’t have a reason to leave the island.

I also wouldn’t take transit unless it was raining though. I’d bike if possible, and for $150/yr transit is a good backup plan.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > CalzoneGolem
08/29/2018 at 13:49

So like I said, a win for the car. Or maybe bike.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > nermal
08/29/2018 at 13:50

Unless you take NJ Transit, then you pay between $300-$468 a month to get stranded when a train breaks down, or they cancel a train and you have to sardine into the next one which then is a super local that stops. at. every. fucking. station. 90 minutes later you’re only at the train station and have a 30 minute drive ahead of you. It would take you 10 minutes but now you and thousands of other people are trying to leave the parking lot and you sit for 20 minutes waiting... Not that I know anything about that, just heard it from a friend...

Kinja'd!!!

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 13:59

It's bigger than you think. The #1 bus route, for instance, might take you an hour and a half to cycle assuming you can keep up a steady pace.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
08/29/2018 at 14:01

I checked google maps, said 1h40m to cycle, 1h20m for the bus. 20m I’m willing to give up considering the fitness benefits.

PartyPooper2012 > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:01

If you want to save a bit of money, see if you can get a moped (scooter) or a motorcycle. Insurance should be a bit cheaper and gas consumption much lower.

It will be less comfortable in rain and snow. My dad used to ride his motorcycle all seasons back in USSR. Sun, Rain, Snow. Dont matter. He did have a side car though. That made it a bit more stable /easier to operate in slippery conditions.

Spanfeller is a twat > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:02

I spend more on parking than it costs to take the bus, if my university was near a subway, I’d be spendin multitudes less money than i do now, while adding very little to my transit time

Shamefully public transport isn’t very safe and access the the university did guide my choice , the bus I take to university is owned by the university so it is an exception.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:03

The bus ride is only 20-25 mins. I don’t know who’s ass google pulled that number out of but it definitely cam e out of one.

50ford500 > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:06

Public transit in a well developed area makes great sense; except for the whole travel time thing. Case in point here a monthly pass to anywhere you wanted to go was like $30.00. I used it to get to work and back 5 days a week only down side was instead of leaving the house at 7:45 and getting to work on my own timeframe I was at the beck/call of the bus system. So I had to be waiting at the Bus Stop at 7 just to get to work at 8:30. Similar scenario on the way home. Now of course since I could continue working on my laptop it wasn’t a major hindrance to productivity there but I can see where different positions that is not the case.

I’ll say though looking purely from a cost perspective for just work transportation yes it makes sense. YMMV not to be combined with any other offers; limit one per customer.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > PartyPooper2012
08/29/2018 at 14:09

Motorbike... no thanks.

Moped... I cannot in good conscience do that as I hate encountering them on the streets. Too damn slow to be a road vehicle, too fast for sidewalks.

I can, however, ride an actual bike. Take about the same amount of time as transit, but it’s free... and has an actual physical benefit .

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Spanfeller is a twat
08/29/2018 at 14:10

There you go then. I don’t have to pay for parking, that’s a factor.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
08/29/2018 at 14:12

This is what I used.

We’re p robably not going between the same places is my guess.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:15

Ye ah that’s not the route I was describing.

404 - User No Longer Available > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:19

Parking in downtown is actually roughly the same as my train fare, but I just rather not drive in the downtown core.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > 50ford500
08/29/2018 at 14:22

Apart from travel time, the thing that breaks it for me is the “Two different cities” thing.

You reminded me of one other thing, I occasionally use my truck for work. ~$ 0.50/km goes a long way.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
08/29/2018 at 14:23

I more or less used it to get a sense of how big the island was. If you’re in the middle, I’m even more in favour of biking

smobgirl > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:25

I haven’t done the math, but right now I can stop at the store on the way home. If I was taking public transit to work I would probably still need a vehicle (pets) so I would probably still be making at least two trips a week nearly to the office just to buy shit. I mean I guess I could Prime Now instead? In the long run, it saves me very little. (Also, I can bike to work faster than the bus.)

I do support the light rail for airport runs though. Holy crap is it better than interstate traffic.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > 404 - User No Longer Available
08/29/2018 at 14:25

That’s yet another variable—what price you put on hassles. Which is another reason why travel time is a big deal to me... when I leave work it’s because I’m done for the day and want to be at home, not done for the day and want to be home in an hour. It means more to me than just it s actual cash value.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:25

End to end it's like 23 miles long.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:26

easily :)

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > smobgirl
08/29/2018 at 14:28

(Also, I can bike to work faster than the bus.)

I’ve never done it, but I’m pretty sure I could. And then there’s an actual benefit to taking extra time.

*Side note—one of the things I’ve wanted to do for a while is pick a random location within the city and race someone on transit while I take a bike.*

Elevated light rail? Knock yourself out. Stealing lanes from existing roads for it? gtfo.

404 - User No Longer Available > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:38

Well I don’t really consider my ride a hassle, most of the time I can doze off, especially in the morning where I have a seat. Besides the train, while more expensive, is a MASSIVE improvement over the subway here.

...and I rather accept the hassle than to live in downtown and not have a car.

LOREM IPSUM > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 14:42

I don’t care if it’s faster. I don’t care if it’s cheaper. I hate transit.

https://nypost.com/video/canadian-transit-police-choke-man-for-trying-to-use-girlfriends-card/

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > 404 - User No Longer Available
08/29/2018 at 14:44

I meant driving downtown at rush hour and pay parking to be the hassle. Personally I think I’d just drive, but then I’ve never done it daily.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > LOREM IPSUM
08/29/2018 at 14:48

I’m in the same boat, apart from the occasional subway trip. I didn’t buy my truck based on this math, it was just a nice surprise.

Also: “Canadian” ...It’s a big place, yo. H ey, we do the same thing over some things in the USA... but it just strikes me as funny

nermal > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/29/2018 at 14:53

That’s what you get for being a pleb and not having $9 million to buy an apartment in the city. Or just a parking space.

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 15:13

I take public transit to work but there’s not a week that passes where I don’t think about driving instead.

However, LA traffic is bad enough that the commute time is nearly the same driving or taking public transit and the cost is nearly a wash.

50ford500 > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/29/2018 at 19:24

Indeed it does.

atfsgeoff > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
09/07/2018 at 12:52

$17,000 over the course of four years? Jesus, that’s $4250 per year. I pay about $1200 per year for THREE vehicles...

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > atfsgeoff
09/07/2018 at 13:03

Welcome to the People’s Republic of Ontario.

Yet another reason why this is valid--if a car makes sense here, it should make sense anywhere.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
10/02/2018 at 16:27

I’m not even considering dollars, just time. I live in the suburbs of Milwaukee and work in the suburbs 12 miles away. To take public transit those 12 miles I would need to walk 2 miles to the park and ride, catch a bus into downtown Milwaukee, transfer to a new bus going to the other suburb, transfer to a 3rd bus once in that suburb and take that to my final destination half a mile from my work. All told this would take 3 hours one way.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
10/03/2018 at 08:29

Time is money. But really, I just don’t like transit and was interested to find out I was actually financially justified.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
10/03/2018 at 08:56

I don’t think mass transit is a good alternative anywhere in North America save maybe few places like New York City

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
10/03/2018 at 09:01

Which is fun ny considering the perception that it’s so much cheaper than having a vehicle.